What chimps can teach us
Posted: Monday, October 12,
2009 7:41 PM by Alan Boyle
MSNBC Cosmiclog
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/10/12/2096519.aspx
Is empathy a uniquely human trait? Research released just
today indicates that human culture rather than raw genetics is the prime factor
behind altruism on a wide scale - that is, the sentiment that moves us to
respond to tragedies involving people we don't even know.
But we're not the only species that exhibits fellow feeling.
The impulse to cooperate is as much a part of evolutionary biology as the
impulse to compete. You might not realize that, however, if all you know about
evolution is that it's survival of the fittest.
In his latest book, "The Age of Empathy," Emory
University primatologist Frans de Waal presents fresh evidence that our
empathethic behavior is rooted in hard-wired habits that can be seen among
chimpanzees, our closest relatives in the animal world, as well as in
far-removed species such as mice.
For decades, de Waal has conducted eye-opening research into
how monkeys and apes find ways to share their food, share affection and mirror
each other's behavior. His studies of chimps have pointed to the origins of our
language and our moral code as well. When it comes to getting along with each
other, de Waal makes it clear we could learn a thing or two from the chimps.
During a recent interview, de Waal and I discussed the meaning of empathy - a word that
has become something of a political football - and related it to subjects
ranging from religion to, believe it or not, the current health-care debate.
Our natural impulse to help out others, even if they're
not related to us, plays a part in the discussion over reforming America's
health-care system, he acknowledged. "But empathy alone is not sufficient
for that debate," de Waal said. "You don't want to base a health-care
system on just feelings for others. You also want to bring in selfish
calculations, which are usually going to be common-good calculations. Like, 'if
you had a good health-care system that covered everyone, we would all be
getting something out of it.'"
Another part of the strategy would be to get across the
potentially dire consequences of doing nothing. That requires an understanding
of the long-range view - involving whole societies rather than small
family groups, over a time frame of decades rather than months. De Waal admits
that such a perspective is a tall order, whether you're talking about health
care, global climate change or other issues with long-term consequences.
"My primates are not very good at long-term
thinking," de Waal said. "They think short-term: 'What's in it for
me?' That's how they operate. ... I don't think humans are particularly good at
this either, and that's why the politicians have a task to bring that across
and explain why this is a better system."
Here's an edited transcript of the Q&A:
Cosmic Log: Could you
explain what you mean when you talk about empathy in other species, and discuss
what you see as a carryover from our cousins on the primate family tree?
De Waal: Well, empathy is sometimes
defined by psychologists as a high-level cognitive feat – you put
yourself in the shoes of somebody else. But actually, the core of empathy is an
emotional tie between A and B: You see someone crying and this makes you feel
sad. I see you smiling and that makes me happy, or I smile myself. ThatÕs a
very basic connection you can observe in many other animals. IÕm not saying
that you will necessarily see it in fish or birds, or reptiles, but certainly
in mammals. There are now even studies in rodents indicating this capacity.
When you get to our closer relatives, you get to more
complex relationships that are more similar to ours. They're not just connected
with each other and affected by each other's emotions. They are also interested
in figuring out what is going on with the other and understanding it, and maybe
helping in a particular way. And so in the primates especially, our close
relatives, you get more forms of behavior that are more similar to what we call
empathy.
Q: One of the things that
you mentioned in the book as an important concept is the idea of taking on the
perspective of someone else. It sounded as if perspective-taking was something
special for the way humans approach empathy. If thatÕs correct, perhaps you
could explain a little bit more about perspective-taking.
A: Yes, humans donÕt reach
that stage immediately, but after a certain age, maybe 4 or 5, they become good
at perspective-taking. Not all animals have perspective-taking – I
mentioned rodents, for example. So when we speak of empathy in rodents, or
dogs, or maybe horses, weÕre not necessarily talking about perspective-taking,
weÕre talking more about an emotional connection.
Perspective-taking takes more intelligence. You are not only
emotionally connected to someone else but you have some understanding.
Let me give you an example: There was a juvenile
chimpanzee at a zoo in Sweden who had a rope wrapped twice around its neck, and
was choking. It was basically going to die. So the highest-ranking male of the
group, the alpha male, came over and lifted the juvenile up with one arm to
take the pressure off the rope. With his free hand, the alpha male unwrapped
the rope carefully from the neck of the juvenile and then released the
juvenile. He basically saved his life.
ThatÕs interesting, because thatÕs a form of empathy and
altruism where not only is this male emotionally affected – otherwise he
would not have taken the action, of course – but he has the intelligence
to do the right thing. Instead of pulling at the juvenile, which would have
killed him, he finds an intelligent solution. And in order to do that, he needs
to understand what is happening to the other and what the solution is going to
be.
Q: Another concept that
people often talk about when they discuss affinity within groups is the idea of
kin relationships, and the distinction between individuals inside vs. outside
the kin group. In the example you just used, was it a situation involving kin?
A: Empathy is not necessarily
limited by kinship, but it is biased. Empathy, in other species as well as humans,
is always biased toward the "in" group over the "out"
group. This is already known through the studies of empathy in mice. They have
it for mice that they know, but they donÕt have it for mice they donÕt know.
This is probably a very general characteristic of empathy, that itÕs more
directed toward individuals close to you than those who are distant from you,
or different from you.
This bias has to do with the fact that animals live
in groups to survive, and they need to care about their group members. They are
dependent on them. But they donÕt need to care about anyone else. So empathy
has been Òconstructed,Ó so to speak, by evolution in such a way that it always
favors the ones close to you.
Q: You have said that that
sense of empathy really needs to be broadened. Is that the sort of broadening
that youÕre talking about, the need to take in a wider "in" group
when we're talking about the human species?
A: Yeah, I think the
challenge for our kind of society is exactly that: We now live in
societies that are much bigger than the original groups we came from. We came
from a group life of 100 to 200 individuals, and the whole system worked fine
in that environment. But now we live in societies with millions of individuals,
where weÕre constantly surrounded by people we barely know or donÕt know at
all. ThatÕs the challenge of our time, to expand empathy in such a way that we
reach beyond just the in group and apply it to all the other groups that
surround us.
We donÕt necessarily need to do that equally. IÕm not
saying that we should have more empathy for strangers than for your our own
family. I donÕt think that we want to erase the boundaries that exist, but our
society requires that we look a little bit beyond our in group.
Q: One of the things that
has cropped up in evolutionary biology is the idea that there may have been
some sort of innovation that allowed humans to expand the working group or the
community beyond, say, 150 individuals. Some people have tied that to the rise
of religion and hierarchical organization. Do you subscribe to that idea? Is
there something uniquely human about religious or hierarchical behavior, or do
you see the roots of that in other species?
A: Well, religion I consider
uniquely human. I donÕt think we have evidence that other animals have
"religion." The definition of religion is often phrased as "Do
you believe in God? Yes or no?" But personally, I look at religion as a
social instrument. Religion is one way to bind the members of a group together,
and have them march toward the same goal, so to speak, which is formulated by
the religion. So I look at religion mainly as a social item that promotes
cooperation within the group, and sometimes is hostile toward outside groups.
I donÕt see any equivalent for that in other
primates, even though there has been speculation, of course, very old
speculation that our model of God was the "super alpha male" –
that we modeled our concept of God was modeled after an almighty alpha male who
ruled the group with a firm hand. So it's not as if primate social organization
and religion are totally disconnected, necessarily. But I do think that
religion is something uniquely human.
Q: Do you have any
prescriptions from primatology that could be applied to putting the human
species in a better state when it comes to empathy?
A: Based on animal studies
and also human brain studies, all the studies we have at the moment show that
empathy is a hard-wired disposition that we have inherited from our primate
ancestors – so solidarity, and empathy, and sympathy, and helping
behavior are part of our genetic makeup. This is something that our political
ideologues, or politicians in general as well as economists and philosophers,
need to take into account. Sometimes our society is structured after principles
that we think exist in nature – so, for example, we structure our society
based on competitive principles and the argument that Òevery man is in it for
himselfÓ in a selfish sort of way, and thatÕs how society ought to operate.
What IÕm arguing in the book is that thatÕs a view of nature
which is totally outdated. ThatÕs a view that came up in the 19th century: ÒNature,
red in tooth and claw,Ó and therefore we need to mimic that in society. But I
think society needs to take into account that we are actually, deep down, a
highly social species in which individuals are not just in it for themselves.
Each individual is connected to all the other individuals in society.
ThereÕs not some sort of complete lesson that you can
draw from primate research and then apply to human society. ItÕs more about the
general statement that basing society purely on individualistic, competitive
principles short-changes human nature, because human nature is much broader
than that.
Q: That seems to be the
bottom line for your book – that a lot of people have that Òsurvival of
the fittestÓ conception of evolution, but you mention that thereÕs a Òsecond
invisible handÓ at work in evolution.
A: They use nature to justify
those views. And, of course, the people who do that are usually not biologists.
A biologist would say, ÒListen, this is a cardboard view of evolution.Ó
Q: Are there particular
things that you think will be key issues for primatology going forward?
A: Yes, let me describe a
little experiment, because I think your readers would probably want to know how
we prove these things, basically. ThereÕs an experiment that weÕve recently
done and on which we are now elaborating. ItÕs a very simple test that we do
with capuchin monkeys. We put two capuchin monkeys from the same group side by
side in a test chamber, and one of the monkeys does a task. It needs to choose
between two tokens, two little pieces of plastic. If it picks a token and gives
it back to us, it gets a reward. ThatÕs all it needs to do.
Now, the difference between the two tokens is that
theyÕre differently colored. One of them feeds only the monkey that does the
task. The other one feeds the monkey, plus its partner. The partner is just
sitting there, itÕs not doing anything. We call one of the tokens the Òselfish
token,Ó and the other the Òprosocial token.Ó We do this test 25 times in a row.
During the test, the monkeys see, ÒOK, this token gives just me a reward, and
that one give me plus my partner a reward.Ó For the monkey who is making the
choice, it makes no difference. He always gets a reward regardless of what he
does.
The monkeys prefer the prosocial token. Over the course
of testing, they start selecting that one more and more – as if they
derive some pleasure from the fact that the other guy is getting something.
ThatÕs a test of prosociality, which shows that monkeys care about the welfare
of others – which is a big issue in human research. Do we care about the
welfare of others? There are now five experimental studies in the literature,
not just by us but by other researchers as well, showing that primates care
about the welfare of others. So that just shows that monkeys are not all about
competition.
Q: I can imagine how you
could adjust the economics of that sort of test to find out whether the monkeys
were willing to pay an extra cost to be prosocial – for example, reducing
the reward given out to two monkeys for the prosocial token, in comparison with
the single reward for the selfish token.
A: Those are things you can
do, or you can alternate between the two monkeys, and then it becomes more of a
reciprocity game. ÒI do you a favor, now will you do me a favor?Ó Or you can
make the value different. Our monkeys donÕt like inequity, so if the partner
gets better food than they themselves get, they are not so keen on that. They
start making less social choices, because they actually would like to get the
same thing or better, not something worse.